Discussion:
B4D controller
(too old to reply)
Tony
2004-12-07 01:02:33 UTC
Permalink
Just got my B4D controller. I am still playing around with it. Some first
impressions (since no one who previously posted about it really wrote much
about it)

The drawbars are what I hoped. This is a matter of opinion, but I did not
want 'midi fader feeling' drawbars. (like a drawbar was stuck on the end of
a common midi fader) These drawbars are made like the drawbars in a clone,
for example, the Korg CX3. They have a ratcheting feel. A quality push and
pull feel, in my opinion.

The wood seems rubbed and the finish is pleasing. This has lots of mdi
control buttons. The buttons have a quality rubber feel with LEDs that show
the position of the button. Press the same button and the upper left or
lower right LED goes on. The LEDs look cool. It has some test features also.

Within about 2 minutes after pulling it out of the box it was controlling
the B4 perfectly with NO mapping (obviously it is already mapped) - I
cleared one of my Midiox maps so it would work correctly through my Midi
Yoke ports, Naturally, though it holds a lot of preset buttons, the finer
tweaks of the B4 to your liking, you do (mike distance, etc) manually as
there are only two fader knobs.

Now the fun starts with Midiox mapping. I will put the B4 on channels 4, 5,
6 not to interfere with the EVB3 Midiox map I am going to make for this.
Patch mapping is also used with Midiox to press a B4D preset button that
*automatically* load another Midiox map (ie: going from the EVB3 to the B4).
Midiox does not affect any latency running in the background THOUGH win.ini
editing is needed so the EVB3 does not grab all the ports <see archives>

I will try later the 'update' on a CD that comes with it for the B4 later
and check for further V1 updates. The product literature seems to be
suggested that it is needed to run the B4D - I believe a Pent 4
hyperthreading fix is in there, but it is NOT needed . Most probably it is a
'cracked version' disabler, disabling and preventing an illicit version to
be installed. So if you *bought* the B4 but use a cracked version on gigs
without the protection hassles (read frequently) you may want to consider
that.

The midi chords seem to plug in a *tiny* bit abruptly not a smooth 'push in'
like my other stuff. Not a problem though. The power unit is 9 volts and
some of the literature suggests that perhaps at one time it took a 9V
battery with disposal instructions, though the power supply is 9 V *AC*. One
power unit will run two drawbar units if connected via the serial-like
connector ports.

The owners manual is funny with mispelling and easy to understand
Germanlish. If you took 3 pages of inkjet paper, folded it in half - it
would be heavier than this *copyrighted* owners manual. "This publication
may not be reproduced . . "

Here is one example: quote concerning linking two B4Ds

"the possibilities are manifold<----- . ." Manifold?

There are mispellings on almost every page. "waterfal" keyboard. The
swell pedal is the "sweller"

"At the rear panel are two ports for two foot pedals and one foot sweller,
otherwiese <------the device could be damaged."

I might add *not one umlaut was missed with Bohm spelling*, The manual also
suggests the Bohm has single and dual "waterfal" controllers. I will have to
look at their site again - never saw them except the B3-like MD42.

It is a quality, low profile, unit and I am quite impressed with it. Another
quality product that one seems to expect from Germany.

Now the mapping . .

To each his own, but it is so nice, quality and cheap I do not know why
anyone would want to make one, spend almost the same money on parts, be
hassled, and may turn out inferior, especially without all these control
button plus the 'clone feel' of the drawbars . other opinions may differ
. obviously. It has a 'pro MI' appearance and neatly engineered.

This is a '2 minute' solution. <and nice>

Tony
Tony
2004-12-12 20:52:54 UTC
Permalink
I got some emails on this from Electro users about questions in the
tweakability of the module. To the best of my knowledge (unless there is a
way into the global of the unit that I do not know about) it is fixed only
for the B4. Having an EEPROM, it might be nice is someone wrote some 3rd
party firmware (assuming it has a removable EEPROM chip that I have not
looked and maybe doesn't) and flashed a new chip so it can control other
clones without mapping. Using Midiox, there is no problem but requires a
computer. I got the EVB3 to work perfectly, except the vibrato is not as
perfectly contrlled like the B4. I was only able to configure two vibrato
settings for the EVB3 from the 3 B4D. (enough for me who may use one or two
settings (rarely) but I spent hours trying to get the same perfect parity
with the EVB3) The vibrato 3 switches on the B4D are proprietary to the B4
(obviously).and send different signal depending the the bus has changed from
changing to a different vibrato button.

To show how odd these 3 vibrato buttons are programmed (compared to general
midi controller buttons) here is a PDF of screen shots from Midiox. All the
other preprogrammed values are easily changed with Midiox. Two vibrato
choices are fine - but it would have been nice to have the unit working just
as perfect with another clone.
.
http://hammondeer.tripod.com/Download/DownloadB/BD4vib.pdf

Tony
Tony
2004-12-13 21:57:23 UTC
Permalink
A few pics inside the B4D controller. This thing works beautifully.

There is an interesting jumper in there of what I have no idea does (could
it change CC values?? or make the controller more generic???) There is no
technical manual with it. Would not switch the jumpers without knowing what
they do from Bohm technical.

There are two boards. For the self styled person, it looks like there all
kinds of things that could be done with this. Even Blix's case would be a
'no brainer' and done fast.

If I had two or three of these I would put it in one case (very easy to do
for the handy) . A person could even take the boards out and install them
in, for example, a slightly larger case with an ITX motherboard for a
completely self contained organ .

The main chip is not removable for an EEPROM swap if the firmware was
tweaked for another clone for a simple push in and pull out Looks like any
firmware would have to be written via midi if possible.

Obviously, everything is marked "Bohm" not Native Instruments so any
technical questions should be directed to them, I would think.

http://hammondeer.tripod.com/Download/B4Dinsid.pdf

(if anyone is ever pricing these beware there is a big price disparity of up
to 150 dollars from various venders - I copped mine for 285 free shipping so
really around 275 with a shipping value - I have seen them listed well over
400)

Tony
Lord Valve
2004-12-15 06:57:43 UTC
Permalink
Tony, you've been eyeballing these things pretty closely.
What I want is a 2-manual MIDI controller that's velocity
sensitive and sends aftertouch. I don't care about
controlling software clones, I want to use it with
a Voce module and some other rack synths. Which
one should I be looking at?

LV
Post by Tony
A few pics inside the B4D controller. This thing works beautifully.
There is an interesting jumper in there of what I have no idea does (could
it change CC values?? or make the controller more generic???) There is no
technical manual with it. Would not switch the jumpers without knowing what
they do from Bohm technical.
There are two boards. For the self styled person, it looks like there all
kinds of things that could be done with this. Even Blix's case would be a
'no brainer' and done fast.
If I had two or three of these I would put it in one case (very easy to do
for the handy) . A person could even take the boards out and install them
in, for example, a slightly larger case with an ITX motherboard for a
completely self contained organ .
The main chip is not removable for an EEPROM swap if the firmware was
tweaked for another clone for a simple push in and pull out Looks like any
firmware would have to be written via midi if possible.
Obviously, everything is marked "Bohm" not Native Instruments so any
technical questions should be directed to them, I would think.
http://hammondeer.tripod.com/Download/B4Dinsid.pdf
(if anyone is ever pricing these beware there is a big price disparity of up
to 150 dollars from various venders - I copped mine for 285 free shipping so
really around 275 with a shipping value - I have seen them listed well over
400)
Tony
Tony
2004-12-15 09:21:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lord Valve
Tony, you've been eyeballing these things pretty closely.
What I want is a 2-manual MIDI controller that's velocity
sensitive and sends aftertouch. I don't care about
controlling software clones, I want to use it with
a Voce module and some other rack synths. Which
one should I be looking at?
LV
I don't see any place that the organ controllers have aftertouch.

Strictly speaking two controllers: Requiring aftertouch, I would use the
Voce with the Doepfer as an upper manual *that just started
shipping<-------* in Europe *today*, if you could get it before the Dec
31st 135 dollar price increase. (or later if you don't care) I then would
use a standard controller like an inexpensive Roland A-33 or A-37 with
aftertouch for 2nd keyboard/organ for synth/other that is light to move.
(though a bit chitzey but easy to sell and popular) I would space them
dual-manual-organ-like within reason. Blix who posts here periodically,
seems to be happy with the A-33 (A-37 came later, obviously)

*Having something with aftertouch that you like/own, then I would simply
just add the Doepfer to the top.* You don't need the D3C (drawbar controller
coming in March, obviously) so you are 'good to go' with the Voce drawbars.*
Hell of a keyboard for a Voce, I might add. The Voce kicks ass too.

The aftertouch playing and solos, larger range playing, could be done on
the lower while you still have a nice organ waterfall keyboard that would
nicely match the Voce organ on the top.

If aftertouch happened to be *not* that importamt, though, for synth
playing it can be VERY, . .and not a requirement, then I would get
the Doepfer in the *2 manual format* (get 2 manuals) (would go beautiful
with the Voce - one reason why they did not integrate drawbars because of
the module owners asked them not to like who owns the Voce). But the problem
here may lie in not enough range for the lower for other planned sounds for
dual 61s.

In my case I could not use the Doepfer dual setup because a have to have a
weighed 88 piano on the bottom in a two manual setup when I use that.

You would also get the correct distance between the manuals like a B3 and
easy to move in two pieces with a dual Doep..

I would be surprised if the Doepfer has aftertouch as an organ controller
(nowhere stated) and nowhere in their website with their midi features do
they mention it.

The nicest looking dual organ *controllers* are the mysterious Bohm (be
surprised if it had aftertouch) , but if they price their dual even 50
percent or less like their MD42, probably mininumly around 2 to 3 Grand. I
got a price list from them once and their MD42 that looks like a B3 was well
over 10K - so, without drawbars, bench, 25 pedals, integrated PC with a
smaller wood case just midi - got to be around 2 Gs at least- so they are
way out, compared to other options, with pricing with shipping costs and
the Euro situation. They may have to ship from Germany since it is not even
on their USA website hypothetically As a dual no aftertouch - THOUGH - it
would be interesting to get a price and availibity of their *single* wooden
case organ controller to use as a top manual.

So that goes back to the Doepfer for a reasonable cost that can be ordered
in the US (soon) (compared to above) with a lower OR a standard midi
controller on the bottom with aftertouch for a nice setup. (or currect
preferred keyboard with aftertouch below the Doepfer)
*Another* Doepfer for a two manual organ, matched, will provide two setups:
One a B3-like setup and another a more multi-keyboard setup.

1. Organ controller on top, keyboard controller on bottom with more range,
(obviously)
2. Dual manual organ when you want more an organ feel and play it like a B3.

(by using a keyboard controller on the bottom, then later grab another
Doepfer for a dedicated dual organ, waterfall, option)

Another setup would be a dual, waterfall organ controller like above and
running the aftertouch solos, chords etc - through a *short controller to
the side , like a 49 note or less controller, since a lot of the
aftertouch will be in the treble range. This might be one of the coolest
setups - BUT - you may need MORE that 61 keys to control piano, synth,
rhodes sounds - where a Deop on top and a 76 (or present liked owned
keyboard) controller on the bottom would serve all the needs, imo.



Tony
Tony
2004-12-21 18:45:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lord Valve
Tony, you've been eyeballing these things pretty closely.
What I want is a 2-manual MIDI controller that's velocity
sensitive and sends aftertouch. I don't care about
controlling software clones, I want to use it with
a Voce module and some other rack synths. Which
one should I be looking at?
The only two manaul (in one package) organ controller with *aftertouch*
seems to be as follows: (pending any corection from readers)

I got an email. The Bohm dual manual M2, waterfall keyboard organ-controller
with the wood, finished case <no buttons just keyboards in wood case with
midi out, needs Voce, B4D/MD4, or other organ module> (can also get it like
the shiny piano finish white or black color to the wood, optionally):

*can* be built-in with their MD42 (?) <different waterfall keyboard
assembly> keyboard that *have* ***aftertouch***. The standard M2 definitely
does not. So, there IS one possible. Probably cost at least 1500 bucks-plus,
(guessing) special order, US, for the dual with aftertouch, controller, I
would hazard a guess..The standard cost less than that.
(obviously, not afiliated)

I know of no other dual manual, waterfall, organ controller with aftertouch
that is commercially available. (pending correction)
.
Tony

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